(upbeat music) - Hello, and welcome to Journal.

I'm Steve Kendall.

How best to manage the use of and plan for the dispersal of our financial assets can be a challenge.

What should you do?

What should you avoid?

Well, joining us to help us with that are Scott Hohman, president of Resolute Wealth Advisor Incorporated, and from RCO Law, attorney Sarah Corney.

So welcome both of you to Journal.

- Thank you for having us.

- Yeah, and thank you for being here because this is a topic that people know is important to them, but that first step or thinking about it has a tendency to make people step back and go, well, I don't know if I wanna.

What should I do, and how should I go about it?

So, Sarah, let's start with you.

If I don't have a will, what's the first thing I should think about doing, and what's the first thing I should think about not doing?

- Absolutely.

So of course, I'm gonna recommend that you get a lawyer.

There are other ways to do a will, but a professional is the best approach to it.

A will is actually a part of a broader thing called an estate plan.

- [Steve] Okay.

- An estate plan traditionally has four documents.

So in the state of Ohio, at the very least, my ideal person, by the time they leave my office, they'll have a last will and testament, which is the document you're talking about, but they'll also have healthcare directives, which talk about who would make healthcare decisions for you in the event that you're unable to make 'em for yourself, as well as a financial power of attorney so that somebody could help your bill, pay your bills if you were ever unable.

So the goal is really to make decisions on who would stand by you as your life changes as you age, or go through illnesses, and as death occurs to everyone so that you would have documents ready, and your family would have an easier go of it during that time.

- Yeah, and we had someone on a few months ago about, as you talked about, the medical aspect, 'cause that's something people don't like to talk about either.

Like they wanna believe they're gonna be in complete control of everything at all times.

Well, and sometimes that is the case, sometimes not.

Now, Scott, she mentioned estate planning, and that's a big part of this because we all know we should have some kind of a plan.

We should do something, but again, it's that first step, kind of the unknown.

Like how do I start?

What do I do?

- Yeah.

- Do I have, first of all, do I have enough assets to even bother with an estate plan?

- Sure.

- And that kind of thing.

So, talk a little about when people come to you, what do you talk with 'em about at first?

- Yeah, so from a financial planning perspective, first of all, the type of work that is done between with wills, and power of attorney, and things like that are very helpful to a financial planner.

When we get in a situation where maybe a client isn't able to make their own decisions anymore, having those directives in place help us take action.

So that work is critical in working in a financial plan.

And when it comes to having a financial planner, working with a financial planner, it's really about trying to be proactive about where you wanna go.

Sometimes clients understand where they wanna go, but they don't really know how to get there.

- [Steve] Right.

- And they're looking for the advice of someone who's got the perspective, got the expertise, and maybe also doesn't have the emotion that sometimes individuals will inflict if they're making their own decisions.

- [Steve] Sure.

- And oftentimes people are hesitant when they come to us because they feel, and I think Sarah, you run into this too.

They feel like they have to have all the answers before they come to us.

And if you're working with good planners, or good attorneys, or good CPAs, or anyone in the professional area, it's really about the questions they ask you.

- Okay.

- They should be working to uncover the areas that they've seen work well in the past.

- Absolutely.

My favorite clients are the ones who are starting from scratch, who we can just, you can come in and honestly say, I'm here for a will, but I'm not sure what that means to me.

And it's my job to explain what that is and what it means to you specifically as I get to know you, and your family, and your needs.

- Yeah.

And I guess the case where you don't have to undo and unlearn something.

People, if you can get them at the start- - Right.

- They can do it right from the get go, not, oh, well we've gotta do something.

We've gotta roll this back, or do this, or change something here that makes it more complicated.

- Yeah, and I think it's common, at least on, in our profession, that we tend to meet people after they've already done a lot of things in their past already.

Because maybe the idea of really pulling it together comprehensively doesn't kick in for them until there's a big life event, or they start to see retirement on the horizon.

So it's not uncommon to have to undo things, but it's easy to do.

I mean, just because someone's done something in the past doesn't mean they can't change direction if they need to.

- Right, right.

- Sure, I have a lot of clients who walk in the door saying, when my kids were young, we went and did a will because I was concerned about who would take care of them if I was never around to do it, but now they're entering into a new phase of life where maybe, like you, there's an adult child in the family now that maybe could step into those roles, and it's time to adjust it.

So the conversation that they had 20 or 30 years before is gonna look a lot different.

- Sure.

- Because the type of people, and roles, and needs that your family have have changed very much.

So there's nothing wrong with coming in and saying, I had that will.

People often make the joke of, my adult child is still going to Aunt Cindy (Steve and Scott laughing) because that's what we went and took care of.

- So well, and I guess you probably get people.

Well, I've got a will.

I'm done with that.

Don't have think about it ever again.

And the reality is, no, you really should look at it almost annually or something just like with, as you say, financial planning.

- Right.

- That's not like you do it once, and you're done for the rest of your life.

- For most, that's all- - Evolution takes place.

- That's right.

And for many, we recommend someone who's working with a financial planner, you really should sit down at least once a year to assess.

Because it's not about the goals, not just about the goals you made when you initially made the plan, but are you making progress towards those goals?

The tools that were implemented, are they helping you get there?

Has something changed in the world?

Have tax laws changed?

And so we like to view those as regular progress meetings, because if we're gonna have a goal, we need to check in to see if we're making progress towards those goals.

And we also learn a lot about what's changed in a client's life during that timeframe.

- [Steve] Sure, sure.

- For example, if a client had a goal of paying for their grandchildren's college education, well maybe they had one or two new grandchildren in last year.

That changes a perspective, so.

- Right, right.

Yeah, and I guess the other thing too is people need to know when they come in to talk to either one of you, what questions, if I come in and say, look, I know I need a will.

Should I have a list of questions like to ask you about what I should do, or do you, is that a good thing for me to say, well, I've got a list of questions, I wanna find out about you and how you're gonna do my will, or is it more of an interaction kind of a thing?

- I'm happy to answer all those questions.

Every now and then I have people who come in with the checklist at any phase of the estate planning process, and I'm happy to answer every question on those lists to the best of my ability.

But more often I tell people what they need to bring is basic information about their family, right?

So some phone numbers and addresses of people they might trust that we might wanna put into these documents as decision makers during life and after death for them, and some basic information about their financial plan.

So what Scott and I do work hand in hand often.

So for example, if somebody comes to my office and does a will, that's not the end of the story.

Because modern estate planning looks a lot different than you might sometimes see on TV where- - [Steve] Sure.

- I did a will, and now magically the people I put in the will receive everything.

Modern estate planning looks more like a person passes away, and there's two categories of assets.

- [Steve] Okay.

- There's one that falls under the will.

That'll go through the probate court.

Your executor will be in charge, and it'll be organized that way.

But more and more, a lot of our assets are over here, especially if you've worked with somebody like Scott, who has maybe set up retirement accounts and investment accounts.

Those can have beneficiary designations.

- [Steve] Sure.

- And for families where their children are adults, or their beneficiaries are adults, and they're competent and capable of handling those funds, maybe it's appropriate to list those people as direct beneficiaries.

In which case, if you haven't updated those beneficiaries in 20 years, even though we just did a will for you- - [Steve] Right.

- If it has somebody who's since passed away or who's no longer a part of your life listed as beneficiaries, doesn't matter what I did over here.

- Yeah, and I'm gonna have to go to a break, but Scott, we'll come back.

We'll pick it up with you.

Back in just a moment with Sarah Corney, attorney at law from RCO Law, and Scott Hohman, the president of investment, Resolute Wealth Advisor Incorporate.

So back in just a moment here on The Journal.

Thank you for staying with us here on The Journal.

We're talking about financial matters and putting together a proper will because it is something people, everybody needs to think about.

Sometimes we don't wanna think about it, but it's something you really should do.

And we're joined by Sarah J.Corney, an attorney at law at RCO Law, and Scott Hohman who was the president of Resolute Wealth Advisor and an investment advisor representative.

When we left that last segment, Scott, I know you wanted to jump in and talk about something that Sarah talked about.

- [Scott] Yeah.

- So pick it up right there, and mention in relation to what she was discussing.

- So we were talking about what types of things should someone be prepared to bring.

From a financial planning perspective, we feel that in order for us to do our best work, we need to understand as much as we can about that individual.

And so we do ask for maybe high level versions of their legal documents, tax returns, statements on anything that they've got, because if they're gonna work with an advisor to help them reach their goals, we need to understand as much as we can to help 'em get there.

And it goes beyond just asking financial questions too.

One of my favorite questions to ask, the first question I typically ask new potential clients is, money means different things to different people.

What is it about money that's important to you?

- [Steve] Ah, okay.

- And we get great answers.

- [Steve] I was gonna say, what kind of responses do you get 'cause that's- - We often hear security.

Maybe there are things I wanna be able to do for the community at large.

I wanna be able to support my children when they have need.

We wanna leave something behind for them, or we don't wanna leave something behind for our children.

We wanna spend everything we've got.

Those themes become very important in how we implement plans.

And so one of the things that we've learned over time, and I think many financial advisors do is that someone's money goes where their heart is.

And if we can understand that, then we can use the money as a tool to help them get where they want to.

Having all the legal work done helps us figure out on those accounts what's the best way to put a beneficiary designation so that we don't undo the work that an attorney's done.

I think you've probably run into situations like that where you put some great legal work in place, and then somebody names a beneficiary wrong, and it runs something through probate that wasn't intended to run through probate.

- Absolutely.

Or somebody fails to follow up with those piece.

I can draft the best documents, and I can send my clients out in the world to tell them they need to stop by the bank and make something payable on death to their child or make a change like that, but it's up to them.

So I find it's, my favorite clients work with financial advisors as well, because I can say, hey, Scott- - [Scott] Yes.

- We just made a major change.

Maybe previously we had done what's called a simple will, which just says everything to these people, and maybe we've moved on to a trust because maybe there are young children inheriting.

So we need to control their inheritance a little bit more because under Ohio law, children can't receive more than $25,000 in an inheritance without court involvement.

- [Steve] Oh, okay.

- So at that point, we're gonna recommend that a trust is involved.

So I can send them back to someone like Scott and say, well, in order for that retirement account or those invested assets to end up in the trust for the benefit of the child, here's the steps to take, and he can walk the clients through that next step.

- Right, absolutely.

And working with other professionals is, I think having advisors, attorneys, CPAs that are working with your other trusted advisors is very important because it is easy to walk out of the office, maybe feel a little bit overwhelmed about all the information you just took in, and get pulled in another direction as soon as you head out the door and forget about the- - [Steve] They get overwhelmed again.

- And get overwhelmed again, absolutely.

- Yeah.

Sarah, real quick, and I know you touched on this earlier, something as simple as I need a, you were talking about a will.

What do I think about when I'm trying to figure out who the executor should be?

What are some of the, I know that everybody's different.

- Yeah.

- And you can't, one size doesn't fit all.

What are some of the things that people should consider when they said, here's the person I want to execute this document when I'm not here anymore?

- Absolutely.

The most important pieces that you trust them.

Sometimes that means a family member.

Sometimes you have adult children, and they've grown up to be people who share your values and who understand what your wants and needs are and your own views of what money means to them.

So that managing your assets during life and after death is really obvious.

For a lot of other people though, it's not nearly as obvious then.

So the first step is trust.

- [Steve] Okay.

- But in a situation where you don't have that person that you obviously trust, there are also financial advisors, attorneys, financial institutions that can step into those roles.

So there is a safeguard for people who don't have a person that they can look to.

There are kind of institutional and professionals that can fill that role when necessary.

- Yeah, and attorneys can do that as well because sometimes their executors of someone's estate, because of, for those situations you describe.

- Absolutely.

I see myself as the decision maker of last resort.

(Steve and Scott laughing) So my conversation with you is going to be, who out there?

Maybe it's a neighbor, maybe it's somebody from your religious organizations, or community organizations that you're involved in, a former employee might be a person that you could look to to serve in those roles if there aren't adult children that are able to handle that.

- Right.

- Other important things to consider, a lot of people question geography.

So, right?

- Oh.

- Is it important that I choose the child that lives down the street from me versus the one who lives in California?

- [Steve] Right.

- And the short answer to that in a modern age is no.

Doesn't necessarily.

- Well, and you raise a good point.

And Scott, obviously now we have people that have multiple homes.

They go- - Right.

- Obviously Ohio people go to Florida, Arizona, wherever.

So they have assets down there.

They have assets up here.

They might have assets in Canada where they go in the summertime.

And again, all different sorts of sets of laws, and rules and things.

So how do you manage that when you're dealing with something like that, where you'll have multiple assets in multiple states, multiple rules to follow?

- Yeah, well that really does get more into the legal side.

- [Steve] Okay.

All right, okay.

- As an advisor, we can be licensed in different states.

- [Steve] Sure.

- And it doesn't change the advice that we- - [Steve] Okay.

- Need to give.

So when we recognize, but those are good questions to ask to understand you have a property in another state to think about.

Have you talked with your attorney about what's gonna happen to this when you're gone and how those laws are different than the state of Ohio?

- [Sarah] And most often it is real estate.

- Yeah.

- So for this reason, no birds in particular, I'm licensed in the state of Florida.

I sat through a separate bar exam in order to get that licensure with the idea that people will often own homes in two places.

Sometimes it's a simple mobile home on a lot near the ocean.

Other times they're extraordinarily elaborate houses, but from a legal perspective, it looks a lot like the same thing for me.

How do I either get it into a trust or get it to transfer on death automatically to who you want to own it.

- Okay, Well, we come back, we'll pick this up 'cause there are obviously a few more questions.

This is a long, we can do multiple segments on this.

Back in just a moment with Sarah Corney, attorney at law, and Scott Hohman, president of Resolute Wealth Advisor Incorporated here on The Journal.

Thank you for staying with us here on The Journal.

We're talking about your financial future and how you wanna manage that future from a legal point of view.

We have Sarah Corney, an attorney from RCO Law here, and Scott Hohman, the president of Resolute Wealth Advisor Inc. Scott, I come to you.

Are there questions I should have, I should expect that you are going to ask me, and also questions that I should ask you just to kinda see how comfortable I am with you as an advisor?

- So we, yes, we really encourage, if you're gonna, when you're choosing a financial advisor, it's okay to interview, talk to multiple.

You're gonna be bearing your financial soul to these individuals, and you need to feel that you connect with them.

And so, certainly asking things about their credentials.

What kind of designations do you have?

What's your area of focus?

If you're nearing retirement, and you realize that you're talking to someone who tends to work with people that are start working- - [Steve] Earlier in their careers.

- Exactly.

You may not get what you're looking for.

Even what are your minimums?

So within a financial planner, they may have asset minimums or fee minimums before they will take on new clients.

And the last thing you wanna do, and those are things, great questions to ask before you have that initial meeting.

You wanna gather up all your financial information and show up and realize you don't qualify for their services.

So and then beyond that, asking any questions you feel you need to feel comfortable about that individual and turning it into a conversation.

Then I think beyond that, where you really will figure out if you got the right advisor for you will be based on the questions they ask you.

- [Steve] Okay.

- Are they seeking to understand you?

I already talked about some of the emotional piece of that.

What's important about money to you?

What are your goals?

Where do you wanna be in five to 10 years?

If they're gonna help you plan, we need to understand where you're at now, where you wanna be so that we can determine if we can help you fill those gaps.

And continue to ask questions until you feel comfortable.

And if you meet someone, and you just don't seem to have good communication with that individual, keep looking.

That's right, that's right.

It's gotta be a good fit.

- Yeah, yeah.

Because it has to work both, everybody has to be comfortable with the arrangement.

- You should be looking for a long term relationship.

- Yeah, yeah.

And that's probably the same way with regard to when you deal with people on your aspect from the legal points.

You want somebody as, obviously if you're a client, you wanna feel comfortable that you're in sync with the attorney who's handling these things for you and laying them out to meet your goals there as well.

- Absolutely.

So I'm the person that you tell that about your illness and what that might mean for your family and planning for it.

I'm the person that you're gonna disclose that your child has had criminal or bankruptcy issues for, and what that might mean for your family and outlook.

And I'm also looking into the skill sets that your family members have and your feelings about it.

People often will talk about if a parent passed away or another loved one passed away, and how badly that went from a legal perspective, or how well it went, and what that means for them.

So often I'm hearing that, I no longer talk to my brother because things went really poorly after my parents died, and we fought over money issues, and inheritance issues, and couldn't make decisions together.

- Yeah, so it's, yeah, it's very, it's complicated.

I mean, which is probably one of the reasons why people are sometimes reluctant to even engage in it, because if they've had a less than good experience, they're like, well, I don't wanna go through that again.

- Right.

- And maybe the same thing if they've ever had a unfortunate experience with financial investing or someone's like well, yeah.

Now, I guess when you look at all of this, if, especially if we look at today, I know that we're in kind of an unusual situation.

- Absolutely, that's right.

- Are people, for instance, coming to you saying, what should I do now?

Things have changed radically.

Does that, how do you deal with that?

Because some people can stay on path.

Other people may wanna change given what's going on in the markets, and inflation, and what's gonna happen next.

And none of us have a crystal ball.

That's the trick.

- So I think one of the real benefits that a planner brings to the table is to do as much as possible to remove the emotion from the decision.

And that's where oftentimes individuals will allow their emotions to take over.

But also it's important to stay informed of what's going on out there to assess, is this a time to adjust or not?

Typical market cycles, if you look back historically, the best thing you could do is to hang onto what you're doing, or if you had the courage to be a buyer.

Those run counter to what everyone wants to do right here.

And so, it just, but that is one of the big roles of an advisor.

One of the roles we definitely have to fill during this time right now.

- Because I know I hear people and you hear it anecdotally, you hear it people describing the fact that, well, I really thought I was gonna retire in two years, but now with what's going on, I have to work two more years after that.

- Right, right.

- And that may be a correct position to take, or it may not be because I hear other people say, no, no, do what you were planning to do because who knows two years from now you may be in, maybe look better now than it does then.

- And you know with planning software, what it really does is it helps you stress test that.

So typically if someone's made the decision to retire, we've tested it through all kinds of market scenarios, probably through market scenarios that are way worse than what we're going through now.

And so we'll show this, the probabilities that they're gonna be able to achieve what they wanted to.

And what's interesting is during times like this, you don't see that change very much.

So that helps remove some of that emotion from the decision.

Because the reality is too, even if they retired at the optimal time, there's gonna be a period sometime after they retire that the market's gonna decline then, and then they're gonna wonder if they need to go back to work.

- [Steve] Right.

- So it's being fully prepared and testing through a lot of scenarios.

That is really important.

Also, one other thing I wanted to add is during times like this is to assess, have your objectives changed?

Financial planning is a long term game.

And so if your goals are still the same, and you've tested that you should be okay to do that, if your goals haven't changed, then you probably don't need to change too much about what you're doing today.

- Yeah, and with the caveat that everybody are very circumstantial.

- Everyone's circumstances are different.

- You make a good point, and you've referenced that a couple of times that it's better to have somebody who isn't as emotionally involved, because I know people say, well, I'm not looking at my 401k statement this month because I'm not gonna like what I see, and then that keeps feeding that, oh, what should I?

I need to do something.

I need to something.

- Right.

- And you wanna have somebody say, no, no, just take a deep breath, step back a little bit.

As you said, things move in cycles.

- Yeah, they do.

- And you probably have the same thing too, when, especially when people have a change of life event, they really wanna get something done right now because suddenly they're not prepared for that sudden change.

And that's difficult for people.

- Absolutely.

So people will often come to see me, the birth of a first child, or a health diagnosis, or preparing for retirement, or maybe we are getting up into our 70s or 80s, and it's time to have documents.

And these are sort of last minute, before we have major changes that inhibit our capacity to sign legal documents.

- Sure.

Yeah, and I know because when we had the people on to talk about, especially on preparing for the medical side of it, that the last thing you, you don't wanna, and you've kind of related this too, that the last thing you wanna be doing is making decisions in an extremely stressful, evolving situation.

You wanna have things in place before that happens, and hopefully then make that as simpler to move through.

But the last thing you wanna do is trying to decide your medical situation when you're going through a medical problem.

- Absolutely.

- That can color your perspective in a number of ways.

- And for lawyers, I'm always concerned about who's gonna come along behind me if some family member disagrees with the documents we've prepared, and if you're signing under a complicated health scenario or you're under duress because you feel you only have a little bit of time to make these decisions, it opens the doors to questions later that maybe there was abuse or coercion involved in making those decisions.

- And you can simply make a mistake because you're not, you wanna get, you're so stressed by these situation.

You're not thinking through all of that.

So we're gonna have to leave it there 'cause we are outta time.

Sarah Corney, thank you so much.

RCO Law, thanks for coming on.

- Thank you for having me.

- Legal experience to this.

And Scott Hohman, Resolute Wealth Advisor Incorporated, thank you for giving us that perspective on the financial side.

- Thank you.

- [Steve] I'm sure we'll be talking more in the future because- - That'd be great.

- [Steve] This is something, it isn't like a one time deal, as we've talked about.

So- - Great.

- Yeah, great.

Thank you again for coming along.

You can check us out at wbgu.org, and of course you can watch us each week on WBGU PBS.

We will see you again next time.

Good night and good luck.

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